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March 22, 2007

Citizen’s Bank Overdraft Fee Scam

Filed under: Rants, Scam Alerts — vvhitekid2 @ 8:56 pm

Nine years ago, I signed up for a checking account at Citizens Bank in Flint, MI. Since then, I have been a happy customer… until now. If you are looking for a bank to do business with DO NOT CHOOSE Citizens Bank. The trouble isn’t worth it, and there are MUCH better banks out there.

Here is what happened to me:

Monday morning I had 200 dollars in my checking account.

On Tuesday I used my Visa check card 3 times:
- Once in the morning for a 4 dollar purchase at a coffee shop
- Once later in the afternoon for gas.. a 21 dollar purchase
- Once for lunch: 10 dollars
- Once in the evening at Meijer for 180 dollars (groceries, clothes, etc).

Ok, at this point you can see that I went into the red. I spent more money than I had in my checking account. Well, because I had “overdraft protection” with Citizens, all 3 charges were approved. Now, there is obviously going to be a fee associated with me spending more than I have in my checking account. But how much do you think it is? 10 dollars? 30 dollars? Not even close.

On Wednesday of that week, I was charged 7 fees totaling 231 dollars.

How can this be? Well, according to the customer service representative I spoke with, Citizens bank charges 33 dollars for both pre-authorizations AND the actual charge on the account! That’s right, they charge 2×33 for each charge made on the card for EVERY charge the day you went over. Pre-authorizations are “holds” that are put on your account at places like gas stations or restaurants, where they want to make sure the card isn’t going to be declined before the services are provided. They do not show up on my online account or my monthly statement.

I would have expected ONE fee, my last charge that day, that put me over, not 7 of them. I asked the customer service rep what would have happened had I used my card 20 times that day for small purchased. You guessed it. I would have been charged 40 fees for 33 dollars totaling $1320. Scary to think about. I’ve used my card 15 times in one day before.

Anyway, I wrote them an email stating that I would like all of my money back that they took for these outrageous charges, or else I will be closing my personal AND business account with them. I got an email response about 5 minutes later with instructions on how to close my account. This just proves to me that after 9 years, they really don’t value ANY customers.

In my email I also asked how I am supposed to be aware of data that I have no access to. I have no idea how much the gas station pre-auths my check card for, same with restaurants. Do you know how much your card is preauthorized for? Have you ever even heard of a pre-auth? Since they don’t show this information ANYwhere, I feel that it is unfair that I am penalized for not knowing it. Their only response was that I should “just estimate twice as much as what you spend will be on your card”. The rep actually said that. Great. Now in order to spend 100 dollars on my check card, I need 200 dollars in it because the pre-auth doesn’t clear for 3 days. SCAM.

After some internet research I saw that in this last quarter’s prospectus they mentioned to their investors that they have modified the fee structure and have made if more difficult for “customers to get fees reversed”. Wonderful.

Beware of Citizens Bank. They lost this long-time customer because of one outrageous incident, and I hope they lose many more.

195 Comments »

  1. banks are out of control with the fees… I say we dump them and turn to Credit unions on online banking. Remember…There is absolutely NO loyalty

    Comment by nneka — April 4, 2007 @ 8:31 am


  2. I was scammed with Citizen’s bank “hidden fees”. Long story short, my husband cashed a check (which I hadn’t known about). They put my available funds “temporarily on hold” for 24 hours to cover the check. In the meantime, though the money in my checking account was showing as available, Citizen proceeded to bounce 6 debits that came in while the funds were “on hold”. After one and a half hours on the phone, I was rudely told by an uncaring supervisor that my ledger balance and my available balance are two different things, that the internet and the balance you get over the phone won’t show the “hold”, and that they reserved the right to do what they did. She said it was all in the disclosure statement when I opened the checking account. When I asked why they didn’t “hold” the debits, they told me debits go through right away and deposits/chack cashing are held. I am out hundreds of dollars. Beware of hidden fees. Citizens bank has quite a scam going!

    Comment by Colleen — June 7, 2007 @ 10:41 pm


  3. They are a ripoff. My son overdrww his account by 2.00. He had no money in his account, after the purchase rendering him 2.00 overdrawn. The bank says they ALLOW you for an EMERGENCY to overdraw your account even though you do not have the fundsa avialable. Then they wack you $35.00 fo9r doing so!!! Then after a wqeek, thery rehit you another 35.00. My sons 2.00 overdraft ending up costing 127.00, because he WAS ALLOWED to overdraw by 2.00 for an emergency which THEY ENABLE and ENCOURAGE you to do, then slam you 35.00 for the overdraft!! They are absolute CROOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Federal banking commision to look nito this practice!!!

    Comment by tom voyer — July 17, 2007 @ 6:15 am


  4. “Thank you for calling, this is Kim, may I have your full name?” Customer service for Citizens Bank, is my job. And for all that call, I am here for you. Any and everyone can make a math error that leaves you in the negative, and if you have a believable story, a good history with the bank and a polite manner, then I am here for you. I’ll listen, explain, and then place you on hold as I check all the details, then go to my supervisor to plead your case. Many times I can come back to my customer with such good news …(this is my favorite part) the customer thanks me, and hangs up happy. Thats a good call! But… most of my calls are from customers who intentionally overdraft their accounts, then call pushing the blame on the bank, in hopes of getting a fee rebate. Keep a good register, note when you cash or deposit a “not on us” check, allowing time for that check to be verified. If in doubt, call, we’re here 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. “Thank you for banking with us, and have a great day!”

    Comment by Kim — July 20, 2007 @ 11:50 pm


  5. I am just wondering if there are many citizens bank customer’s that are having the same problem.

    I have been a customer for 25 years now, with 3 accounts, 2 personal accounts and 1 business account which I have had for 2 years and never a problem until about 8 months ago. I noticed the bank has been bought out by other banks many times over the past couple of years and our branch has a new manager every couple of months.

    I have had approx. 4 really horrible incidents in the past year alone.

    Several months ago I had made a deposit with cash back, being in a rush, I failed to count all the money in my envelope not realizing that I was 100.00 short. When I got home a short while after, I counted the money and was missing 100.00. I called the bank after searching every inch of my bag and car before I called to be sure it wasn’t me and was told by the manager that I probably spend it shopping somewhere and forgot which made me feel like an idiot. Sure enough the next day the 100.00 was deposited into my account, without a phone call or an apology or just to let me know that they made a mistake. Ok, well not that big of a deal.

    The second time I ran into a problem was when I was making a $600.00 withdraw from the citizens bank ATM, the machine made the same kind of noise it makes when counting the money before it comes out, only nothing came out. I called the bank on my cell to report the problem, thinking I did something wrong with an unfriendly man’s voice on the other end stating ” yes, your account is fine and you have enough funds (which I knew to begin with) and that it sounds like the machine is not functioning properly. SO, THE BANK DEDUCTED THE 600.00 from my account BUT I DID NOT RECEIVE THE MONEY. It was a relief knowing that I was not an idiot. So I asked if he could do something on his end so that I can make another withdraw without having the transaction counted twice, which would bring my account to a negative and he claimed that “there is nothing at all that can be done”. I would have to wait 24 hrs. and the money will be deposited into my account. 24 hours went by and no money, 48 hours went by, no money. I called the bank and was told that “the person I spoke with gave me the wrong information and that it takes approx 3 weeks to investigate this and I would have to fill out some forms and file a claim before receiving the money. “Sorry ma’am, this is our policy” Ok, I could do nothing at this point but wait for the forms to come in the mail and go from there, 2 weeks went by, no forms, but did notice the bank did deposit the 600.00 into my account, again no communication, wrong information and just left me out to hang. SO, WHO IS THE REAL IDIOT HERE???????

    HANG IN THERE, I KNOW THIS IS BORING BUT I HAVE MORE………. AND I AM HOPING THAT THERE ARE FOLKS OUT THERE ARE HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS AND WILL SPEAK OUT.

    I just want to say first of all that I am OCD when it comes to checking my daily balances, especially with my business account. I am very well aware of my automatic deposits and withdrawls 3x daily I call the automated system to check my balances because of so much activity in this account, morning, noon and night.
    Make a long story short there has been atleast 3 different times in the past 6 months that Citizens has charged me overdraft fees, how could that be, when I called 3x every day and also made cash depostits at that time, AND HAVE NOT USED MY ATM CARD, the automated system never said “OVERDRAWN” Did I say that I call the bank atleast 3x per day to get my balances? the first overdraft fee was 300.00 of which they refunded 50%, 2 months later 500.00 overdraft fee because the first 245.00 overdraft fee did not cover my deposit to cover the overdraft fee so the next day they charged 245.00 for that overdraft. I hope that I am making sense. Anyway, guess what happened today after calling the bank daily and checking my balances and registers, another overdraft fee. I am not the kind of person to write complaint letters and don’t have the time, but would just like to know if there are more citizens customers out there who were also made to feel like idiots when the bank made “mistakes”.

    Please send letters to: LARRY FISH, CEO AT CITIZENS BANK, 1 CITIZENS DRIVE, RIVERSIDE, RI 02915

    Comment by Lonnie — July 25, 2007 @ 8:56 pm


  6. citizen bank is the worst bank in the whole world.this month alone they charged over 900$ in fees i had a posoitive balance but they say it was on hold so they kept charging me fees shame on them and shame on president of citizen bank for not care about his customer instead he has god the rudest people in customer service and supervisor the same shame shame

    Comment by alex — August 18, 2007 @ 12:52 am


  7. Reading these stories, and having had similar experiences, is not a surprise. There are plenty of pre-auth scams that are run by banks, hotels, mobile phone services, and on and on. Do not expect to get good service, do not expect anyone to take responsibility. And to Lonnie: Larry Fish (or any other CEO type) doesn’t give a damn. The best advice I can give is not to deal with big banks - if you can find a small small bank in your own community, where you can get to know the local branch manager, bank there (at least you will have a name, face and a real person). To Kim: you must be one in a million - customer service is designed to not give customers any service.

    Comment by mieszko — August 22, 2007 @ 6:05 am


  8. Just got off the phone. OK, when I opened the account I was given a list of fees in, what else, the Fees booklet. It says $19 per item for 1/2 days, going up to $35 per item for 6 days or more. It says nothing about “within such and such a time”.

    So I overdrafted by $15 three weeks ago. I got a $38 fee. Panic, because then I am $53 overdrawn. But money went into my account. Now we had unexpected car trouble, and yes I didn’t check my account before spending. My husband had spent $69.95 fixing a broken mirror while I was busy buying groceries and we overdrafted again this week. Four items yesterday totaling $51.16 overdrawn. We deposited enough to cover the overdraft - thank goodness it was just the first day! $19 for four items - $76, right?

    I got a $190 fee - and when I finally got through to someone, I was told I had overdrafted before, bumping my per overdraft charge to $38. If you are good and don’t have any overdraft charges for 12 months, we’ll drop it back to $19 per overdraft, I was told. Nothing about this in my fee book.

    We can forgive some of this - I was told. As if I needed to be forgiven for charging $190 for money that I had already deposited into my account within 24 hours of overdrafting!!!!! And how much of the $190 did they “forgive”? $76. Yes, I am still overdrafted as of this minute, though I have deposited more than enough to cover the overdraft.

    Citizen’s Bank is a ripoff and I am closing my account.

    Comment by Tracy — September 26, 2007 @ 10:08 am


  9. “Thank you for calling, this is Kim, may I have your full name, please?”

    Tracy, and all …. it is not about “checking your account” before spending. It’s about keeping records of deposits, bills that are debited on a schedule, and expences. Simple math skills and good record keeping, plus knowing your banks policies on cashed and deposited checks will keep you in the positive. I answer the phones for mostly foolish people who can not exercise their spending control, and then push the blame onto the bank when they get fees. If the bank charged no fees, then what would be the limit to how much customers would take? Honestly, don’t spend more then you have and if you do, suck it up and pay the fees.

    “Is there anything else I can assist you with today? Then thank you for banking with us and have a nice day!”

    Comment by Kim — September 29, 2007 @ 11:40 pm


  10. Here’s a question that I’ve been wondering for awhile. If a credit card knows when to stop charging then why doesn’t a debit? I fully understand that it is up to the individual to manage his or her money right but this should take place at the purchase. If you don’t have enough money to cover it then the system should put a stop on the account until the funds are there. Just a thought

    Comment by Neal — October 16, 2007 @ 5:19 pm


  11. I’m also fed up with Citizens. Sometimes shit happens and you just can’t get to the bank quite on time. Not an excuse, but it’s life. Also, in my case, I suffer from short-term memory loss, which is no picnic. I remember one minute that I have to go to the bank and the next I forget. Anyway, I’m really tired of paying insufficient fund fees (I’ve actually only been overdrawn twice, but it’s enough!) . I am honest enough to admit that it’s my fault that I get charged a fee. And, I really don’t mind paying a fee - as long as it’s reasonable. Citizens fees are beyond riduclous.

    Oh, and Kim, I’m sure you’re a nice person. Really. But, I can assure you that you must be the ONE in a million that’s employed by Citizens. As you can read from others and as I will further attest, your customer service center has the rudest, uncaring people that I have ever had to deal with. I’ve been around for awhile and I’ve seen it all and heard it all. I’ve dealt with customer services depts. of many companies. I’ve even been in customer service myself. Citizens definitely gets the award for the rudest. Really!

    Comment by Jan — November 3, 2007 @ 5:59 pm


  12. Oh, and what I forgot to say - On Monday, I’m heading straight to the bank to close my accounts. I don’t need their headache any longer.

    Comment by Jan — November 3, 2007 @ 6:03 pm


  13. Jan, thanks so much for saying what is on your mind. I would give anything to have been the agent on the line when you called. I love helping a good customer who has just made an error. I also have short term memory problems, so I can relate. I spend most of my days answering questions and explaining banking policies, but nothing is more rewarding then helping one of MY customers. Thats right, you call as a Citizens customer, but once you let me help you, you are mine.

    Neal, many of our customers need gas or groceries days before they get paid and they choose to overdraw just to survive, so for them, I am grateful they can meet their needs. It is like a pay day advance without the loan sharks.

    Everyone have a great day!

    Comment by KIM — November 4, 2007 @ 6:59 pm


  14. The same thing just happened to me with M&T Bank. $256 in fees for overcharging $22.

    Comment by Steve — November 15, 2007 @ 6:40 pm


  15. My husband and I cash our payroll checks at citizens bank. Almost every time I am in there the bank teller asks me if I want to open an account. They ask me if I would be interested in direct diposite. They tell me how much easier it would be for us if we didnt have to drive all the way down here just to cash a check. With direct diposte, she said, you money will be in you account in the morning and with a bank card you could use there CONVIENENT ATM’S. Finally giving in my husband decided to give direct diposite a try and he opened an account. While he was signing the papers we were in a rush to get home to get my son off the bus. We asked the teller if there were any fee’s in useing the bank card. She made us aware that there was a four dollar fee when you withdraw money from an ATM. Satisfied we went about our banking.
    Three weeks later my husband could not get his bank card to work while trying to make a purcharse. He called the bank and they said that his money was there and to try to wipe the card down as it might be dirty. After wipping it down he tried to withdraw his money from the nearest atm. He was successfull this time. He left .99cents in his account and made his purchases.
    A week later we get a letter in the mail saying that we owe the bank 107 dollars in over draft fee’s. Not just one fee, a combination of fee’s that added up to 107 dollars. We couldnt undrestand how that happened. There was .99 cents in his account when we had left it. SO, when we called the bank they said there was an additional 2.00 atm charge that we didnt know about. We told him that we asked the teller when we signed the paper if there were any addition fee’s in useing the bank card and she had told us no. SO naturally we were upset. The customer service repusentaive said that since we signed the paper it doesnt matter what the teller told us.
    Now we told him we would be happy to come to the bank and pay the two dollars but that it was unfair to charge us 107 dollars off a mistake that was caused by the bank teller who had handled our account. We tried to reason with him. We live pay check to pay check. We don’t have much extra money and christmas is right around the corner. We have a young son and taking this money is takeing food out of his mouth and making it really hard for us to afford to do christmas this year. He had no sympathy whatsoever. We asked him what would happend if we didnt pay it. He said we would be black flagged and wouldnt be able to open a bank account anywhere else. Not to mention our credit report that we are trying very hard to repair. So, all those commercials you see on T.V showing how careing Citizens bank is is all just a facade. I strongly urge people not to bank with citizens. If the bank makes a mistake on there end they fix with an appology. We can not charge them 107 in fee’s for our inconvience. How it possible that they can do that to us?

    Comment by anna — November 29, 2007 @ 11:51 am


  16. I am extremly mad!!!!!!!!!!

    a couple of months ago my husband got caught up in this fee scam. I yelled at him thinking he was an idiot. Come to find out it happened to me. I noticed that some money was missing and did nothing about. Although, I just deposited $175 I got hit with about $80 insufficent funds fees. I bring it to a positive now I have $100. My husband works next to the bank goes to talk with them. Guess what?! They charged me $210 insufficent funds fees for stuff that hasn’t even been posted. I deposited $100 my husband $120. What do you mean I am getting charge more fees. ” Because these items are going to go threw on midnight.” I asked for a print out nothing is in the negative. Explain this how can you charge for something a day ahead when it’s not on hold and no one but the bank can see it? I think that is unfair and am closing my account right now.

    Comment by Jessica — December 11, 2007 @ 3:41 pm


  17. My wife and I had the same situation happen to us. We have two accounts that are linked. We’ve been wainting to buy or boys a Wii and had the money in our account. My wife made the purchase then realized that she used the wrong card. We transfered the money immediately. We recieved notification that we had items on “hold” that put our account over the limit and we were assessed overdraft fees of $210!!! To add insult to injury, we had $69 in the account to cover the items other than the Wii which was transfered. We went to the branch and they told us they could not “see” how the items posted online and directed us to the online customer service. We went to the online customer service and they told us to goto the branch!!! It seems as if citizens chooses which transactions post at what time to keep the snowballing effect going. I know banks are under a lot of pressure to make money in the wake of the mortgage downgrading and interest rates at near all time lows. I just dont want to be raped in the process. As soon as I find a hometown bank or credit union I’m gone!

    Comment by jamelle — December 12, 2007 @ 8:24 am


  18. It happens at Wachovia as well, not just citzens bank..looked at my bank balance this morning only to find out I was $358 dollars because a payment had been taken out twice and the person I spoke to previous had said she would not allow the 2nd payment to go through..well she did..and now I am in the red because of all the over draft fees..I hate Wachovia. There has to be a better bank somewhere who doesn’t take advantage of their customers.

    Comment by Sam — December 12, 2007 @ 6:37 pm


  19. 1300 dollars in overdraft/insufficient fund fees in since June. That is an average of around 220 a month in fees during that period, a period in which my average monthly balance was 189 dollars. Sure I am the one who used my card and who uses Citizens auto-bill payment etc. but this seemed outrageous. Spoke to a Branch Manager today she “could maybe get some of the most recent charge of 150 dollars refunded to me if I opened a second checking account.” !. I am a Citizen aren’t I? Long, long time customer.

    Comment by Ryan — December 14, 2007 @ 7:26 pm


  20. Glad to see someone else use the term “Snowballing Effect”. This is exactly what happened to me. Its only money but this not very cool. We are all taking advantage of the latest in banking technology offered by Citizens. Unfortunately the penalties are just as rapid as the benefits and when it comes to rectifying a penalty well…”That is a really slow and painful process unfortunately but thank you for choosing citizens, good luck at another bank, and thanks for your hard earned money (which, incidently; we are, in fact, going to keep.”

    Comment by Ryan — December 14, 2007 @ 7:45 pm


  21. listen here folks = before closing your accounts make sure you withdrawl everything you have in there, and then go on a spending spree and overdraw the account. They cant take what you dont have and you then send them an account summary bring the negative balance back to ZERO closing balance by mentioning all the fees they have charged you, the time away from your busy day, the lack of customer service fee etc etc

    Comment by Joe — December 19, 2007 @ 2:56 pm


  22. Citizen’s Bank loves to vaunt the fact that they are always giving back to the community as they participate in different charaties and the (Main Street Program). Nevertheless, did you ever wonder where the money came from to accomplish the civic minded miracles? They stole the money from little people like you and me. I have been a long time customer of Citizen’s Bank. Recently, I deposited a check (large sum)into my Citizen’s Bank account. I check the automated system faithfully on a daily basis and according to the automated system, I had access to my money. After FIVE DAYS I found out that I had a negative balance of over $4,000.00 as I had been using MY money. I called the bank and the person who issued the check to me and got to the bottom of it. I resubmitted the check within a day but it didn’t seem to matter to Citizen’s Bank. I am told by the Assistant Branch Manager in one of the branches in New Hampshire (Matthew Sterns) that it is a courtesy to Citizen’s Bank customers to have use of the money without knowing for sure that the check has been cleared. This is what I found out after the fact. Matthew sits behind his desk and Citizen’s Bank POLICY and tells me that ultimately I am responsible for any checks that I deposit and that he wasn’t willing to waive the $228.00 in fees which snowballed while I had no knowledge that this was happening. (I can understand a reasonable fee of $50.00 for the fact that a transaction or check didn’t post properly so that people don’t indiscriminately abuse funds, yet, this is about spiraling fees and snowballing) By the way, according to Citizen’s policy it is up to the customer to know at all times what is going on in their account. We are not privy to that information as we are not Citizen’s Bank insiders with access to the main frame 24/7. Whatever happened to good will and trust between venders and clients? Citizen’s was going to get their money one way or another as they have every bit of personal pertinent information about anyone with an account at their bank. Needless to say, I have closed my account with Citizen’s Bank (never to return)and can not continue the heavy handed banking tradition. I guess the lesson here is…read all your fine print and know all of your policies. So with falling temperatures, rising energy costs, what’s $228.00 to the average person? Merry Christmas Citizen’s Bank-NOT YOUR TYPICAL BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Susan — December 20, 2007 @ 11:14 am


  23. Citizen’s Bank loves to vaunt the fact that they are always giving back to the community as they participate in different charities and the (Main Street Program). Nevertheless, did you ever wonder where the money came from to accomplish the civic minded miracles? They stole the money from little people like you and me. I have been a long time customer of Citizen’s Bank. Recently, I deposited a check (large sum)into my Citizen’s Bank account. I check the automated system faithfully on a daily basis and according to the automated system, I had access to my money. After FIVE DAYS I found out that I had a negative balance of over $4,000.00 as I had been using MY money. I called the bank and the person who issued the check to me and got to the bottom of it. I resubmitted the check within a day but it didn’t seem to matter to Citizen’s Bank. I am told by the Assistant Branch Manager in one of the branches in New Hampshire (Matthew Sterns) that it is a courtesy to Citizen’s Bank customers to have use of the money without knowing for sure that the check has been cleared. This is what I found out after the fact. Matthew sits behind his desk and Citizen’s Bank POLICY and tells me that ultimately I am responsible for any checks that I deposit and that he wasn’t willing to waive the $228.00 in fees which snowballed while I had no knowledge that this was happening. (I can understand a reasonable fee of $50.00 for the fact that a transaction or check didn’t post properly so that people don’t indiscriminately abuse funds, yet, this is about spiraling fees and snowballing) By the way, according to Citizen’s policy it is up to the customer to know at all times what is going on in their account. We are not privy to that information as we are not Citizen’s Bank insiders with access to the main frame 24/7. Whatever happened to good will and trust between venders and clients? Citizen’s was going to get their money one way or another as they have every bit of personal pertinent information about anyone with an account at their bank. Needless to say, I have closed my account with Citizen’s Bank (never to return)and can not continue the heavy handed banking tradition. I guess the lesson here is…read all your fine print and know all of your policies. So with falling temperatures, rising energy costs, what’s $228.00 to the average person? Merry Christmas Citizen’s Bank-NOT YOUR TYPICAL BANK!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Susan — December 20, 2007 @ 5:00 pm


  24. I have been dealing with this recently also. This could be the best one yet! On December 11th, I needed to order home heating oil. My wife noticed we were low. It was delivered late in the afternoon on the 11th. On the 12th, there was nothing online. On the 13th, there was the check…DATED FOR THE 12th!!! This put two other transactions in the red resulting in $114 in fees. I looked at the back of the check and it clearly was printed 12/13/2007, but on the 13th they processed it dating the 12th. I called and was told that they were looking at the same check and it was dated 12/12/2007 on the back. I was told that if I printed it and went to a branch, the fees would be refunded. Here’s the very, very suspicious part. On my screen, the date is 12/13. I printed it and it actually showed 12/12! The only way I could get it to print what was on the screen was by using the “print screen” function. Copying it to a Word document and printing the document. I took it to a branch. I didn’t say anything except, “Could you tell me what this date says?” The response, “December 13th”. Perfect, where’s my refund. Nope…still had to debate with them. The woman procedded to print her own copy. 12/12 again!!! After going back and forth a bit, they refunded the fees claiming it was a courtesy. WHAT??? he refused to acknowledge any wrongdoing and her story changed to, “Well, it might look like a 2 after all.”

    Today, more fees! No negative balance, but $114 in fees. Called up and spoke to a very rude girl. Again, after debating, she agreed to refund 2 of the 3 fees.

    That’s it for me. Off to find a new bank.

    Comment by John — December 21, 2007 @ 12:18 pm


  25. I am just sick as i read everyones complaints. Its Christmas and all these people including my family have been robbed by Citizens Bank. I can tell you they have taken more money from us than we deserved. People are just trying to get by and they snow ball fees one on top of the other. I found a 114.00 insuficiant funds fee on my account for a credit that had not even gone through yet and after my husbands check had cleared. No matter how much I argued they would not help. I did however ask them how they could do this to so many people living from pay check to pay check? They do not care. Needless to say after few bad words later from me i will be pulling my account first thing Monday morning. Forget having direct deposit and overdraft protection. Its now become the biggest money maker for this bank. I urge everyone out there not to use Citizens bank. This is very sad that laws dont protect people from this. At least have a cap that we can live with on these fees. Thats it for now. Lets see what happens when i go in the bank on monday to close that account!!!!! They probably have a policy from preventing me from doing it. lol

    Comment by Lisa — December 29, 2007 @ 7:33 pm


  26. It’s Kim again. Citizens customers that have never overdrawn their accounts will never find this blog, because they are not looking. I help with loans, CDs, transfers, interest, etc. But calls about negative accounts are the usual, and many of these customers are repeat offenders. Honestly, don’t spend money you do not have available. Keep a resgistry, if your registry is low, so is your bank account. Customers overdraw themselves in the hopes of the fee being rebated. I hear all the time, pay check to pay check …don’t spend more then you make. It’s your money, until you spend your way into the negative. It’s basic math skills and a good ledger, it can be done, and is by millions of happy Citizen’s customers! Happy New Year!

    Comment by Kim — January 2, 2008 @ 1:04 am


  27. To Kim:

    I am a former bank teller, and Court Clerk who balanced books for four counties. My recent experience with Citizens in Michigan will be my last. I balance my checkbook daily, like many other people. I went Christmas shopping and used my Visa debit card to make four purchases, and the same thing happened to me that happens to many other people. I was charged $275.00 in overdraft fees for these “holds”. I spoke to my banks manager, and all he did was argue with me. I for one am not going to sit back and “take It”, and I would advise all you other folks that have had this problem to do the same. We cannot change things if nothing is done about it. I am filing a complaint with the Federal Reserve Bank. I spent several days and phone calls, and it may take a while, but I will get some results, it it only comes in the form of the Federal Government putting and end to these ridiculous scams that the banks are pulling. I think it’s time we as Americans satand up for ourselves…..fight back. What have we got to loose? Anyome can reach the federal reserve at www.federalreserve.org. File your complaints….let’s stop this madness. Happy New Year.

    Comment by Jill — January 5, 2008 @ 1:56 pm


  28. It’s the “high to low” posting policy that makes them the most money. Say you have $200 in your account. You make 10 debit transactions for $15 each one day. You should have $50 left in your account. The next day you make a $150 ATM withdrawal, overdrawing the account by $100. Obviously, you’ve overdrawn your account and should pay one overdraft fee. But instead, the bank will post that $150 withdrawal on the day it’s made, then post the 10 $15 debits against the $50 left in your account (which will only cover 3 of them). That’s right, instead of one OD fee for $38, they can now charge you 7 of them - $266. They know that doing it this way maximizes the fees they can take from the customers who can afford it the least. And they know that anyone who lets their account get that low is living paycheck to paycheck. They know that for every OD fee they charge a customer, that customer is that much more likely to overdraft the following week. It’s a snowball effect. A fairer (but less profitable) policy would charge a percentage of the overdraft. Think about it, if that $3 cup of coffee overdraws your account by $1.50, they’re going to charge you $38 to “borrow” that $1.50 for a few days - or however long it takes you to make a deposit. Calculate what that means in interest. It’s more than a bank could ever dream of making on a credit card, personal loan or mortgage.

    Comment by Steve — January 6, 2008 @ 10:18 pm


  29. One additional comment - if you’re the type of person who could see yourself in the example illustrated above, you’re better off making larger ATM withdrawals and trying to avoid making debit purchases at all costs. In the example above, if the customer simply made one ATM withdrawal for $300 and paid cash for those 10 $15 transactions, he still would have overdrawn the account by $100 but he would only have paid one $38 fee - keeping $228 of his own money rather than letting the bank get their greedy paws on it.

    Comment by Steve — January 6, 2008 @ 10:36 pm


  30. Thanks for the comment Jill. I understand what is being said. I am not here to defend bank fees, but hoping to educate people so they can avoid getting fees on their account.

    When you use your debit card, as credit it places the amount you are spending on. Hold means you can not use that amount for any purchase. The only way you can get a fee from a MC purchase is to use more money then you have available in your account. When you swipe, subtract immediately, do count on a debit to post after you get a deposit. If you don’t have it, don’t spend it. Balancing books means to never spend more then you have deposited.

    Posting order: I agree with Steve that the posting order, largest to smallest does cause more fees. And once you know this, then don’t Overdraft and it will never be a problem again.

    I am here, just ask me questions. Not knowing your banks policies can cost you. I am not in the area of our banks, but I do have an account with another bank that folks blog about, and not favorable either. But, I know my banks policies, and carry my ledger with me so every minute I know my balance. Like Steve I do not make lots of little purchases, I make a cash withdraw and live on that from pay day to pay day. Once I paid ONE fee, back when they cost $14, was the last time for me! Know your bank!

    Thanks everybody, keep the blog going. Happy New Year!

    Comment by Kim — January 9, 2008 @ 12:15 am


  31. By the way Jill, We don’t have Citizens in MI, our branches there are Charter One, and we only have Master Card debit cards, no Visa. I believe that we never changed Charter One to Citizens because another Citizens Bank is in that area. But your point still applies. :-)

    Comment by Kim — January 9, 2008 @ 12:24 am


  32. “The only way you can get a fee from a purchase is to use more money then you have available in your account.”

    This is incorrect, at least for the Citizens Bank out of Flint, MI. If I have 100 dollars in my account, and go out for a 60 dollar dinner, my balance ends up being 7 dollars.
    How can this be? Well, here is how it was explained to me by citizens:
    Every charge to my debit card is actually TWO charges… an authorization, and the capture. When the capture actually will go through, you will have the 60 dollar dinner on your statement, along with a 33 dollar fees since you overdrafted. Yes, they count pre-authorizations, something that you really have no control over, or any way to verify, as actual charges that result in overdrafts. Hopefully you didn’t make any other small purchases that day, because each of those would count as an overdraft as well. And the transactions that involve pre-auths will count as 2!

    This happened to me several times while at Citizens and THIS is how they are scamming. I’ve since closed my account.

    Comment by vvhitekid2 — January 9, 2008 @ 9:46 am


  33. Again Citizens bank in MI is not the same Citizens bank I work for. I know though that a resturant, hotel, and lounge/pub will authorise more then the actual purchase which places that amount on hold. Then later the second engagement is the actual amount that is taken from the customers account. This is the practice of the merchant not the bank. Ask when you are paying for one of these bills how much they are going to put on hold, and don’t use that amount until you know that hold is released.

    Everybody have a great day!

    Comment by Kim — January 10, 2008 @ 11:48 am


  34. It all makes sense, and it makes just as much sense to know your bank’s policies. Here’s my example.

    It’s late in the pay period and I was tight on money, and needed gas to get to work. I’m just a lowly restaurant manager working full-time while I get through college part-time.

    So I use my debit card to purchase $10 in gas at a local speedway station, leaving $3.21 in my account. Later in the day and the next day I verify the transaction and all was well. 3 days later I look online again and there’s ANOTHER 10.01 charge sitting on top of an Overdraft Fee, both being in process. I’m going to check again tomorrow at my local branch office and argue with a teller and/or manager. (I’ll post my results when I get home.)

    The thing is, I never spent money I didn’t have. I physically NEVER put my account into the red. But because of this fabled “hold” they place, I’m most likely going to get the shaft.

    It’s a really shady business practice but when you sign an agreement/TOS that has provisions about “holds on accounts”, this is the type of thing that happens, and the bank will in most cases win an argument. Of course there’s that rare occasion where they’ll provide a “courtesy”.. hopefully that’s my case tomorrow.

    Comment by Greg — January 11, 2008 @ 3:48 am


  35. Ok so I talked to the teller today, and apparently my experience wasn’t an isolated incident. Across the US, if you got gas on 1/6/08, Speedway double charged you. It was a mistake on their part. I would suggest that if any of you good people got gas on that date, check your account activity between 1/6 and 1/10. They made the double charge but ended up refunding it. If you went into the negative, speedway will pay for the overdraft, the process is on their website.

    Comment by Greg — January 11, 2008 @ 7:32 pm


  36. Greg please let me know how it went at the bank. Here is what I see from my chair on a gas purchase using the master card debit card as a credit transaction (not using a pin number)

    When you slide the card a dollar is placed on hold, this is a test hold to make sure the card is a working card. Only the dollar is on hold for the first 24 banking hours. Once the merchant finalizes the transaction the full amount replaces the dollar on hold. When the transaction posts to the account, the hold drops off. Mistakes happen, if it is the banks mistake (or the merchants) then you can call customer service and ask an agent to help you to get bank the fees charged by the error. If you make the mistake, then you still can call and see what can be done to help you.

    Let me know if I can help Greg. Thank you for banking with us and have a great weekend. ;-)

    Comment by Kim — January 12, 2008 @ 1:02 am


  37. I am SO glad to see that this is not just happening to me and my husband! We have been through this over and over with the overdraft fees and things. Some of which were totally our fault I will admit, but some were totally boogus. Saturday we put a check for 589.00 in the account. we went online and we were positive we spent maybe 300.00. well today (thursday) my husband goes to put his check in the bank I was waiting out in the car and he was in there for over 20 minutes I went inside to see why it was taking him so long, and he was standing there looking at papers that said we were negative 275.00 AFTER he put his check in. How on earth do you become negative after only spending $300 from almost $600 and put a check in. Outragious is what I call it. Oh the lovely bank teller did waive a 29.00 and 33.00 dollar fee big freakin deal we are still negative. we’ll be hit with another fee tonight! I can’t take it anymore you work hard for your money and it seems like theres always some fee for something. I would have closed the account today, however my check is getting deposited tonight and for the risk of getting put to jail we had to leave because we were both fuming. Its a shame they can take advantage of people like this I am so upset. We called the CT headquaters and the guy hung up on my husband. Tomorrow I am calling someone else and closing my account and warning EVERYONE, NOT to use this bank. I’m glad this isnt only happening to us- not that I’m happy this is happening to anyone. I may not ever understand the whole “hold” process or whatever they are doing, but I understand that I need to withdrawl my money and leave! good luck to whoever decides to stay with this bank! I wish you the very best of luck!

    Comment by Debbie — January 17, 2008 @ 9:05 pm


  38. If you get takeout beware…a 15% tip is taken out immediatly and then put back in. | have lost thousands
    due to fee’s and mismanagement…I have a saving account protection and they removed it and now are not living up to deducting the charges. I am filing with every agency. We should start a class action lawsuit.
    My banks computer’s are always down. They know it’s the old building so how do they say that the computer is accurate.

    Comment by madeline — January 18, 2008 @ 9:06 am


  39. Debbie, what happens when you deposit a check. The bank puts in for check verification from the paying bank. If the paying bank gives us a go ahead, then we release funds into you account. But sometimes, for unseen reasons, we later get notified that the check will not be paid, then the funds are placed back on hold. Even working for the bank, I am not immune to this, or late direct deposits, merchants placing an extra hold and so on. I have overdraft line of credit protection, and a bit of money in my account on reserve. Banking is more difficult these days with so many scheduled and unscheduled debits. So you have to have a plan to stay fee free.

    Happy banking! Kim

    Comment by Kim — January 19, 2008 @ 2:58 am


  40. It’s awful that Citizen’s Bank preys on people who are living paycheck to paycheck. Vultures! Citizen’s Bank is definitely scamming with their high to low policy. I was charged a $39 fee for being $3.03 overdrawn (because of a $10 gas purchase that didn’t post for 4 days, even though they state on their website that all purchases are taken out immediately), and another $39 fee for a $6.00 purchase that put me over by $9 in total. The bank cashed a $900 check after these 2 transactions. I don’t know how it is legal to post transactions from high to low and not in the order that were transacted. If the $900 check was cashed last, I would only have overdrawn once. I was willing to pay one overdraft fee for my mistake, so four phone calls and 2 emails asking if they could waive one of the fees, since $79 was legal theft for being overdrawn $8. The bank is getting about %1000 return for my honest mistake. I agree that all their charity comes from overdraft fees. They are stealing from the poor to improve their image. Then they get tax breaks,so they are actually profitting from this. I really doubt they care about humanity. I just want to know, when that ad on television that shows the Citizen teller helping the elderly lady across the street, is one hand in her pccketbook and the other around her shoulder. So Kim, I hope your conscience lets you sleep at night, knowing that you are taking food from children’s mouths, or maybe you lack that. It’s too bad that most people might not have your superior math skills. I read your code of ethics on your website, so could you explain to me how your overdraft policy is honest and ethical. $39 if you go over $1 and $39 if you overdraw by $2000. Legal crooks! Write to the Federal Banking Commission, your elected officials and Citizen’s Bank. Let your voice be heard.

    Comment by rose — January 24, 2008 @ 5:31 pm


  41. Thanks for commenting Rose. I only reply here hoping to help people to understand how and when customers can be charged a fee. I believe that information on banks policies can make a customer aware of how to not get bank fees. Today is harder then ever, joint accounts with two debit cards, electronic debits, holds, checks, etc. added to busier then ever lifestyles, makes banking a tricky business. No one needs superior math skills, a registry and a calculator will do the trick. I am a single mom, with no other source of support, that lives paycheck to paycheck. I do understand what it is like, and I could not afford one of these fees. But from my desk, I can many times see where my customers go wrong. Many problems caused by the cash advance companies, internet “free” offers (if it is free, they wouldn’t need your card or bank number) and video club fees from unreturned movies or games. Whatever causes your account to go below zero, it will cost you! I’m not in the Citizen’s area, but my bank known for higher fees (and all bank fees just went up) will charge me if I make a mistake, so because I don’t want my child to do without, I make sure I keep my registry with me at all times, and update it the same minute I spend any money. I never rely on a balance inquiry (not to mention I cannot spare $2), online or the automated system to tell me my balance, I depend entirely on my registry.

    With a pending recession, we all have to be more careful with our money. Unless you have to have a checking account, some of my customers have been better served with a savings account and an atm card that cannot overdraw your account.

    Rose I do sleep at night, because most of my calls I helped my customer. My motto is “Even grumpy customers need rebates”.

    :-)

    Comment by kim — January 26, 2008 @ 12:33 pm


  42. I got ripped off by them too, looks like i’ll be switching to a local bank that treats me more like a person instead of a number. I had $54.99 in my account. I had a check out for $30 which had been sent out days prior. So days after that I spent 5.29, 14.88, and the following day I spent 21.90. The 21.90 definately put me over, and they charged me 34, and 37 totaling $71 in overdraft fees. I called them and asked them why I was being charged twice for one incident. They insisted it was two. I explained the order in which I made the purchases, and also explained that according to my bank account it stated i had 4 dollars and change with ONLY the 21.90 left to clear. They had the nerve to tell me the 21.90 came out first, then the other two purchases are what gave me two overdraft fees. gotta love how they change the dates in which they actually hit my account in order to draw more money in overdraft fees from me. I will NEVER recommened anyone to use citizens bank for as long as I live. and i’m in my 20’s so i got alotta livin left to do!

    Comment by Tony — January 26, 2008 @ 5:10 pm


  43. I ALSO HAVE BEEN A LONG STANDING CUSTOMER WITH CITIZENS BANK AND RAN INTO PROBLEMS B/4 XMAS USING MY M/CARD (WHICH I HAD BEEN TOLD HAD OVERDRAFT PROTECTION AND WAS HOOKED INTO MY SAVINGS ACCT) TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT I WAS CHARGED $842 IN FEES WHICH THEY AGREED TO REFUND ME $256, BECAUSE OF MISUNDERSTANDING. I DO PLAN ON WRITING MAIN OFFICE TO ATTEMPT TO GET MY $586 BACK, IF THIS FAILS I AM WILL FILE WITH BANKING COMMISIONER AND ATTORNEY GENERAL THEN THE PLAN IS TO BRING THEM TO SMALL CLAIMS COURT.I BELIEVE WHAT THEY DID WAS UNLAWFUL WHEN YOU USE YOUR M/C AND IT GOES OVER THE LIMIT IT SHOULD DECLINE,NOTHING WAS MAILED FROM BANK ABOUT PROBLEM FOR 3 DAYS I SAVED ENVELOPES SO I JUST RACKED UP THE CHARGES FOR THOSE 3 DAYS.

    Comment by SUSAN — January 27, 2008 @ 3:47 pm


  44. Susan, what were the amounts of the fees? I tried to calculate 842.00 by what our fees are and found no calculation that matched. If this was a first time depending on area, it could be $17 or $35, then finally $38 each, sustained over draft fees are $35 after the first six days negative and then a final $35 sustained fee posting 5 days later. You must have had at least 24 over drafts.

    Savings overdraft works like this, all or nothing. If you don’t have enough in savings to cover that entire days negative balance it won’t cover anything.

    Keep good records (on both accounts) and you won’t rely on the card to decide if it will over draw you are not.

    I had a woman the other night an hour from home, with no money and her car ran out of gas. She kept good records and knew she didn’t have any money in her account. She called only hoping that she might have a few dollars in her savings to transfer over. When I told her she could over draw using her card, she cried from relief. We can’t please every one all the time, but knowing she was going to get home safe and sound to her family was worth all the bad crap I hear all day.

    It’s your money, use it wisely!

    :-)

    Comment by kim — January 28, 2008 @ 1:08 am


  45. The problem is that credit unions are going the way of banks now. Competition is stiff and the credit unions are charging just as many fees as banks. It’s sad really. I too hate overdraft fees with a passion. I was online a few weeks ago and found a bank in Kentucky that will let you overdraft as much as you want for $19.95/month. It’s really nice for people like me who overdraft a couple times a month by mistake. I figured I would give it a shot. Here’s the website if anyone’s interested.

    http://free-overdraft.com/signup/LearnMore/LearnMore.html

    That’s the information page, to apply they have a form to print out and send to the bank. So far I’m pretty happy with them. I got a call from a girl at the bank that explained the account to me and I got my checks a few days later. Maybe there is an end to overdraft fees in sight…who knows.

    Comment by Ted — January 28, 2008 @ 12:46 pm


  46. I basically have the same story as everyone else, but just wanted to let everyone know that citizens bank has another unsatisfied customer. CITIZENS BANK ARE A BUNCH OF CROOKS. They are an institution of criminal role reversal. Instead of sticking a gun in your back and robbing you, they give you a card and charge you $39. for a $1.35 cup of coffee. It’s no wonder people rob banks. They’re just getting their money back that was taken from them.

    Comment by Tom — January 28, 2008 @ 1:21 pm


  47. Tom, don’t over spend then you will only pay $1.35 for that coffee! It’s your money, keep your own count.

    Funny only folks who overdraw their account call the bank crooks! :-)

    Comment by Kim — February 3, 2008 @ 12:01 am


  48. We didn’t even overdraw our account and citizens charged us an overdraft fee of $35. We had $50 in the account, and they said that there was a “hold” on our account for $60. The “hold” was for gas that we only paid $25 for. They said the gas stations sometimes put holds on your account for higher amounts then you actually paid, but that the amount is never actually deducted, they just want to be sure the funds are available. (Although the gas stations say it is the banks that are doing this - and only to people who have low funds available so they can charge the overdraft) I asked how I could be responsible for a fee I had no idea about, and they said that I was. I told them that I never actually overdrew my account, therefore I should not be charged. Yet, they are refusing to refund the $35. You can bet that Citizens just lost another customer, and that I will fight tooth and nail to get that $35 refunded. How can they possibly hold me responsible for something I never even charged?

    Comment by Jamie — February 6, 2008 @ 6:25 pm


  49. In re-reading my comment, I put that I asked how “I could be charged for a fee I knew nothing about.” I wanted to clarify, it wasn’t an actual “fee”. The $60 that they held on my acount was just a “hold” - but after so many days, it drops off. So, in the end, I’m only charged the $25 for gas that I orginially put on my debit card - leaving my account still in a positive balance. I never overdrew my account. The bank knows I never overdrew my account. They admit I never actually overdrew my account. Yet, they refuse to refund the $35 for an overdraft.

    Comment by Jamie — February 6, 2008 @ 6:32 pm


  50. Citizensbank is the worst bank in the US. This is my story:

    I have a loan and a checking account with citizensbank. I use my checking to transfer money from my other bank to pay for my loan. I always keep a little bit of money, but never keep track of how much. Last month I decided to look at my statement and doing so I realized that they were taking $17 a month since March of last year. When I called customer service they said that the type of account I have, requires me to keep more than $5000 for them to stop charging me the $17. I was ready to close my account, but for some reason I decided to ivestigate. I wife found my original papers from when I opened my account and realize that they weren’t suppose to charge me anything. If your loan with them is more than what they require for you to have in your checking them they have to link both account. I called them back and they apologized and said that the account weren’t linked properly. They only credit me with $47 (three months) and said I had to go to local branch and talk to the manager in order get a full reimbursement. I’m currently deployed with the Marine Corps how can I stop at my local branch??????? Later I sent them an e-mail asking if the interest could be reduced on my loan because of my military deployment and they said no. I e-mail them back explaining the Servicemember Relief Act, and they never responded. Them people are full of Sh.. F… citizensbank.

    Comment by Rully — February 7, 2008 @ 8:21 am


  51. I had the exact thing happen to me that happened to Jamie. I had a postive balance in my account - around $50 - when DHL accidently put a hold on my account for $59 for a shipping charge I had already paid for weeks prior. They never actually took the money out of my account, they just placed the “hold” on it, so my account was never actually overdrawn. Yet, Citizens still took out the $35 overdraft fee. I called them about this, and they told me that DHL had placed a hold on my account for the money. Concerned because I had already paid DHL, I contacted them, and they explained that this had happened to everyone that had shipped packages on the same day, but the money was never actually withdrawn because they had caught their error in time. They even called Citizens Bank for me and explained this to them. Citizens however, refused to refund my $35. I’ve been fighting with them ever since.

    Comment by Bob — February 8, 2008 @ 4:41 pm


  52. Again, a hold is placed by a merchant, not the bank. If DHL causes you to overdraft by a hold they placed in error, then why not blame DHL? I rebates fees all the time, when it’s merchant error, or just as a courtesy, as long as the customer isn’t blaming the bank, and hasn’t already received excessive rebates in the past.

    Same with gas stations, ask about that stations policies, don’t assume anything.

    When money is “on hold” it is NOT available, so don’t spend it.

    What is that old saying, “A Fool and His Money …”

    Know your bank’s policies, read your disclosures, keep a ledger, stay on your budget, use a calculator …

    Comment by Kim — February 9, 2008 @ 7:03 pm


  53. Rully, that is a bank error, some how your circle checking account fell out of circle with the loan account. You need to call back, and ask for a supervisor to assist you.

    The soldiers relief act is for loans only, so call consumer finance and request the instructions for applying. What is does is lowers your interest rate to 6% on any and all your loans with us.

    Also you need to change that circle checking to the free green checking, unless your loan is a line of credit. I wish I could have taken your call, I would have been able to help you with all these needs.

    Jamie and Bob I would have rebated your fees as well, I do understand merchant holds and how they can cause you problems.

    It’s not that we are dishearted in customer service, it’s just that the bank expects one thing from us, and the customers expect another. Real customers with real issues always win me over, but unfortunately most of my customers are at fault, and just want to call to degrate me, to make themselves feel better. I have sat on mute for as much as 10 minutes while a customer screams at me calling me names, etc … then once they’re done, I’m still silent, they ask are you still there? “Yes, now if you’ll let me, I’ll help you.”

    I am someone’s daughter, someone’s sister, someone’s mother and someone’s grandmother, but spoken to many times a day, like someone’s trash. And still if you need me, I am here for each of you.

    Comment by Kim — February 9, 2008 @ 7:20 pm


  54. Every bank has overdraft fees. Citizen’s are outrageous. Funds should be made unavailable if in fact they are UNAVAILABLE! Citizens and all banks make it so easy to just swipe your card and they advertise that way, and they also advertise online banking as an easy way to “stay on top of your finances”. Well when it takes a charge over a week to come through on your account, that’s extremely difficult to do.

    Either way, that’s not the bank’s fault, we should all be better about keeping track of our expenses. What IS the bank’s fault is that they push you to lose track of your expenses by making it so easy to do so. They love the fact that it’s so easy for a person to overdraw. What IS the bank’s fault is that they are now charging $38 per overdraft!! That’s robbery. The fees should either be per $20 of over draft, or per day.

    Those of us living paycheck to paycheck find it very difficult to be able to handle $200 + dollars taken from our account. That screws us for the next pay period and will most likely cause us to overdraft after that. Citizen’s is the worst and if people just keep staying with them, they’ll continue to rob you. Cancel your accounts NOW!!

    I did.

    Comment by Alex — February 12, 2008 @ 4:33 pm


  55. Sorry, one more thing. Kim, you are an angel I’m sure, and I always make it a point to be nice and polite to the people on the phones because after all, it’s not they who are performing the actions on which I’m disapproving of and I know that like you, they’re mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, daughters, etc.

    However, when I took your advice and called and was polite and pleaded my case and asked nicely and explained that it was far from intentional. I got $38 back. . .from almost $400 I got. . .$38. I explained to them that I had another account that was not nearly as harsh and that I was going to have to leave Citizens because of this. They seemed as though they were glad to see me go.

    Oh well. So much for Customer Service, I’m sure you’re one of the rare ones Kim. You should find a company where you’ll fit in better.

    Comment by Alex — February 12, 2008 @ 4:42 pm


  56. Banks making money! When interest rates go down, investment rates go down, money gets tight, even at the bank. So bank fees, not just over draft fees are the way banks make money. Imagine that everything was to go back to the way it use to be: no direct deposit, no debit cards, just atm cards and paper checks. No instant payments. If you wrote a check for your electric bill and did not have money in the bank, it would bounce back to the electric company you’d be sitting in the dark. Banks need customers, customers need banks. I bank at a bank that promotes the use of their debit card by rounding your purchase off to the even dollar, calling it keep the change. Then they put that change in your savings account. If you NEVER over draw this is a great plan. But they know, the more you use your card, the more likely you will over draw. I use my card very little, so I have very little change to brag about.

    The only way to NOT over draw and pay bank fees, is to be smart, keep good records, and have a plan how and when to use your card. I would rather have a happy customer on my phone!

    :-)

    Comment by Kim — February 13, 2008 @ 12:28 am


  57. My husband and I opened our account on Feb. 1,2008 at citizens bank. On Feb. 14, 2008 we deposited our paychecks of $1,243.87 and our deposit slip gave us a total account balance of $1,664.64 and an available balance of $408.32. I was ok with this because the check should be fully available the next business day… well that is what i thought. (by the way i should mention that my parents are long time customers of Citizens bank so I know the payroll checks go through the next business day.) Well on Sat, Feb. 16,2008 I went to make a purchase at walmart and at this time I knew i had the money in the account because i keep very good records of ALL transactions. Well my card was rejected at walmart. I then go to the atm to get an account balance and this is what i find a negative balance of $288.56. i then call the bank to find out what this is. I have more than enough money in my account well this is what they told me…. because my account is new and less then 25 days old all checks deposited to the account will be held for 5 business days. and I will be charged for 17 overdraft fees come Tues, Feb. 19, 2008 because of purchases and checks posted to my account. I asked the rep on the phone How come my husband and i was not notified of this check holding policy. She then told me that we were notified the day we opened our account…. NO WE WERE NOT. I had no idea this was going to happen until the 17th of Feb. My sister and my mother then went down to her local branch at a supermarket (because they are open on sunday’s) (by the way they live in another state, we don’t have supermarket branches in my state) she asked the teller about the policy and he told her that all tellers are trained to assume ALL customers know their policies and they do not have to inform any customer of any check holdings. this is outragous…. oh and it gets better… the bank refuses to take off any overdraft fees…. well my sister has informed me that any complaints about the bank should be sent into the FDIC and this matter will be looked into. I’m currently writing the letter now and come Tues. morning I will be mailing it to them seeing how monday is a holiday tues will have do. so for anyone who is having trouble with Citizens Bank you can write a complaint letter to the FDIC go to their website for all information it is www.fdic.gov. do not close any accounts until you contact the FDIC, let them help you get the issue resolved first before closing any accounts. an non existing account can not be helped.

    Oh and did i mention that Citizens has the RUDEST CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER. i can’t believe how rude and heartless these people are…. no wonder there is sooooo many problems between bank and customers. that goes to show that we live in a greedy world and customer service is non existant. no company knows the true ethics of how to treat a customer.

    Citizens Bank are nothing but scam artists… And why are there no laws protecting the consumer… if you want information on how to help to protect customers from overdraft scams visit this website and sign your name to the petition letter… http://ga3.org/campaign/hr946 this is to support the consumer overdraft protection fair practices act HR 946. if you are tired of paying fees then sign the letter.

    Comment by Josette — February 18, 2008 @ 3:05 am


  58. Kim this is in reference to your post on Jan. 26, 2008. my sister keeps perfect records of her register and she keeps it on her at all times and any check she writes or debits she makes gets deducted the same min she makes the transaction…. so tell me how are you supposed to keep track of your account if the bank puts a hold on your account and you don’t even know it, because the bank didn’t inform you. and then get told by the teller that they don’t have to inform you about a holding and they assume that all customers know the policies. to me that is not right. I go with bank of america and i had a check i deposited and it was held because it was a thrid party check… no problem because the bank assumed that i didn’t know about the policy and informed me the check was going to be held and on top of that the deposit receipt had the date listed on when my funds will be available. for that i was properly informed and knew not to spend that amount of money. i have made a few overdraft mistakes before but i owned up to them because they are my fault but if the bank does not properly inform the customer of the policy or let them know of any fees then i’m sorry i have to blame the bank. it is their duty as a financial institution and loyalty to their customers to inform them about any policies, fees and check holdings. i had a big problem with citizens four years ago, my husband cashed in some savings bonds (now we went to the bank to ask the inrest because we didn’t know how the interest was incurred, we relied on them to be correct) we didn’t know it at the time that there was a problem because we thought that is what he was going to get in interest we relied on her to be right. well a month later our account went 4000.00 in the negative. come to find out the teller gave us too much interest. i calmly called a customer service rep and was basically told that it is my problem and if i didn’t pay the 4000.00 back in 30 days then this would be reported to the credit bureaus and my credit will be so bad as if i filed bankrupcy. that really scared me because i have good credit. so i did the next best thing i contacted the FDIC the matter was resolved the next day. and my credit didn’t go bad due to a teller error. and believe me as soon as the matter was cleared i closed out the account and went to… yes… bank of america and have been happy since. Citizens customer service is rude and very heartless they don’t care about the customers only on ways on how to make money and rip the low and middle class off. i will never go to citizens bank ever again. they lost a long standing customer who never made an overdraft on that account.

    I’m fully prepared to get my sister through this mess and I have helped her write to the FDIC. We are also fully prepared to go to the news station and plaster Citizens Banks overdraft scam all over the news. this is a scam and i will also inform the news about this website. my parents are also fully prepared to withdraw everything they have from this bank and go to a new one, and they have done business with them for several years. in fact i’m going to inform all my citizens bank account holder friends about all of these scams and let them be aware of it. we are in a pending recession and every dollar is precious so what gives the right for the banks to manipulate the charges so they can get much more in overdraft fees.

    and for any of you who have overdrawn on your account but didn’t keep good records well shame on you because the fees i’m sorry you deserve. but i don’t agree with the bank putting the larger amount first just so they can charge a ton of overdraft fees on a lot of smaller charges. that is not right. they should be posted to an account the same order that they were recieved. go to Josette’s Post on Jan. 18,2008 and sign the HR 946 letter and help get this act pasted to stop this snowballing.

    Comment by Candida — February 18, 2008 @ 4:09 am


  59. I’m not surprise about this scam. I currently bank with Washington Mutual. I do not have overdraft coverage which means that if I use my debit card and funds are not sufficient the card should be rejected for insufficient funds. WaMu did not reject the debit but allowed the withdrawal and then charged a $50.00 overdraft fee. This happen over the course of several months before I realized that over $1,000.00 had been taken out of my account to cover overdraft charges when they simply could have rejected the debit. I had been banking with WaMu for 3 years and have direct deposit which means they knew money would be coming in and simply opted to charge a fee for insufficient funds knowing they could easily withdraw the money out of my account at the time of deposit. This is a SCAM! If I don’t have the money don’t give me the money. I have no overdraft protection which means they should not give me money I do not have and then charge me for it later. I will never bank with them again!

    Comment by Toni — February 21, 2008 @ 11:43 pm


  60. I have direct deposit, and bought 2 things under $5, expecting that day I’d get paid, and my account said I had $33 dollars in it also. The next day I see that I have an overdraft fee of $130-something dollars, b/c 2 purchases FINALLY went through…and no deposit from my job ever went into my account..Now a day later, I listen to the Citizens Bank account info and hear another purchase went through for $4 and now..lucky me…I wowe $173.83..and still no direct deposit from my work…Seems I’m a lucky girl…

    Comment by Jackie — February 22, 2008 @ 6:38 pm


  61. I also returned some shoes for $29 3 days ago, and that hasnt gone back into my account YET… It seems so much easier to take the money out, then get it back IN!!!

    Comment by Jackie — February 22, 2008 @ 6:40 pm


  62. CITIZENS DOES NOT VALUE CUSTOMERS OR SMALL BUSINESS HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN HERE AT ANN ARBOR. REMEMBER WHEN THEY WENT FROM REPUBLIC TO CITIZENS, THAT WAS A WHILE BACK, WELL JUST THIS PAST WEEK THEY ARE TELLING US THEY CAN SAVE US MONEY BY SWITCHING FROM ONE BUSINESS ACCOUNT TO ANOTHER(AT THE SAME BANK) BECAUSE WE ARE loosing money which is a pay, pay, pay, pay, fee based pay again business account. I am closing 2 accounts there this week. THE Way they hold back money and information is sick. ALL OF YOU PEOPLE THAT THINK YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE YOUR MONEY ,well think again, you do. What is happening here is that you probably feel bad and and believe that it is you and your error. Citizen Bank here in Michigan uses a program that is designed to take money from the customer , it knows when to take money out and when to hold it and in each move it makes money. I KNOW YOU DON;T SEE MONEY GOING INTO YOUR ACCOUNT DO YOU, COMING FROM THE SAME SYSTEM DO YOU . THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOSING MONEY HERE, TO THE SAME BANK. I WOULD”NT BE TO SURPRISED TO SEE SOME CITIZENS BANK PEOPLE LOSE THERE JOBS HERE, THEY BETTER DO SOMETHING FAST OR HEADS ARE GOING TO ROLE, MARK MY WORDS I KNOW. THIS SHOULD BE INTERESTING. SINCERELY, THOMAS

    Comment by THOMAS — February 23, 2008 @ 8:59 pm


  63. Thomas, I completely agree with you. If we could get everyone here to petition Citizens Bank then maybe something could get done. If the FDIC were to get enough complaints from customers then maybe an investigation would happen. I’ve been there with Citizens and I just want anyone here who has a complaint you really need to go to http://ga3.org/campaign/hr946 and sign this letter to your state rep. I hope this can help. You also need to send a letter to the FDIC and let them know you are having a problem with Citizens. They have to power over them. And if all else fails hit them hard by going to the news stations (only do this if the problem is big) you don’t want to make fool out of yourself. Hit them hard where the money belt is. bad pubicity is were it hurts the most. Everyone needs to be aware of their snowballing overdraft get rich scams. There are soooo many laws protecting people from many things well why aren’t there laws protecting the consumer from banking frauds as this. If I went into a bank and poses as someone else to withdraw (steal) from another persons account I go to jail for identiy theift and fraud… well how can a bank get away with almost the same thing… they are scamming the consumer and fraudulant on taking money for bogus overdrafts. HOW IS THIS RIGHT? Please go to the FDIC website at www.fdic.gov for information on your rights. I had to use them 4 years ago from Citizens and I did get good results. Citizens had to eat the account. I PERSONALLY THINK THAT SOME OF CUSTOMER SERVICE AT CITIZENS NEEDS TO LOSE THEIR JOB OR NEEDS A NEW ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT. THEY ARE THE MOST UNCARING AND HEARTLESS PEOPLE I HAVE EVER HAD TO DEAL WITH. Good luck to anyone who has had a problem and takes the steps to correct it. I only blame the people that knew their account was going to go overdraft but didn’t do anything about it, but for most of us who didn’t know because the bank changed the order the charges would go through the account to make themselves rich then I feel for you and I hope you take my advice and contact the FDIC and sign that letter to your state rep. Let’s pull together and unite as consumers and beat this scam, and lets put Citizens in their place. I check this site regularly, if you have questions about contacting the FDIC, I will be happy to help.

    Comment by Candida — February 24, 2008 @ 2:48 am


  64. So he’s my issue. I had just started a new job so I wasn’t really getting paid for 3 weeks because the pay is biweekly. So on thursday I had only $10.68 in my account. I got a cup of coffee on credit leaving my “available balance” at $9.31. Then later I took out $7 at the ATM to bye lunch at work and was charged by that ATM $1. So I should have had $1.31, right? WRONG! The next day I got paid and went online to see my balance. there was about $500. so I went about my normal spending. Then I check today and they have taken out $39 for an insufficient funds fee, although no where on my statement have i gone negative. I called customer service and they said that the coffee $1.37 coffee was put on hold and the $8 ATM withdrawal went right through. Then they charged me $2 for using a foreign ATM. Then even though my pay check went through before the $1.37 was taken out, I was left with a negative available balance. WTF? I think that that is ridiculous. Then they told me it’ll take weeks to close my accounts because i have 2 direct deposits to get cancelled or else they’ll just keep reopening. I’m outraged by this and the rep I spoke to was very rude and uncaring about my $.60 overdraft. Citizens bank is a joke!

    Comment by Jordan — February 25, 2008 @ 10:48 am


  65. I too have been hit with numerous insufficient funds/overdraft fees over the last few months due to “holds” on my account and high to low posting for my purchases. I have to say finding this blog has been an education for me. I was going to close my accounts with Citizens but it seems that all banks follow this process.

    So here is what I will do. I will no longer use my debit card for any purchases and will instead withdraw cash at the bank (or ATM) for my week’s purchases. This will be a tough adjustment because I used my debit card all the time, but hopefully this plan will keep my money in my pocket and I will no longer be a victim to Citizen’s predatory practices.

    Comment by Kasey — February 25, 2008 @ 3:22 pm


  66. Also, to add to what I stated above in my plan to avoid these fees, I have canceled all my online payments and will go back to sending checks by mail for my bills. When I deposit or cash a check at the bank, I will not even consider that money to be available for at least five days, as it is often held for that amount of time anyway. I will also go back to keeping meticulous records for my checkbook, and not rely on the online balance.

    This has been a huge wakeup call for me. I have to admit that I have been rather lax in keeping track of my purchases, and ultimately it is up to me to make sure that the money is there when items are presented for payment. It is my money and therefore my responsibility, and I am going to do what it takes to make sure that I don’t get into this situation again.

    Good luck to all!

    Comment by Kasey — February 26, 2008 @ 12:57 pm


  67. AGAIN, the Citizens Bank in this blog, is NOT in Michigan! We are known as Charter One in that state.

    Jackie, making a purchase before verifying that deposit, is the best chance to get an over draft fee.

    Not knowing your banks policies on holds is also the best way to get overdrawn. As I have said, over and over, I am trying to help customers to become banking savy, so they have their money. But when I read this blog, I realize that it’s just easier for the customer to blame the bank.

    I have had a checking account for 29 years, and once I goofed up, and was charged an NSF fee. That punishment was all I needed. When you make a deposit of a check, and the teller doesn’t say when the funds are available, and the deposit slip doesn’t say, and you have not paid any attention to the signs in the lobby on funds availability, or read your account disclosures, then why not ask the teller?

    Rude customer service? Customers can also be rude, sometimes abusive, and personally blaming the agent, for the mistake they’ve made.

    It’s banking, know the rules that apply to you.

    Comment by Kim — March 2, 2008 @ 12:24 pm


  68. Kasey, you make my heart smile! Have I talked with you before? The reason I say this is because this is what I say to customers all day long, and it falls on deaf ears. But you my dear, get it! God Bless you, you now have controll over your own money.

    Banks are a business, if you play by their rules then you are a happy customer, but if you try to get around the rules, the banks will profit.

    Kasey if you ever need me, I hope I get that call, I’ll be there for you.

    :-)

    Comment by Kim — March 2, 2008 @ 12:33 pm


  69. Hi Kim; no, I don’t think I have spoken with you before. But thanks for letting me know that there are people who work for banks that do care about the customer, because you don’ts always get that impression when you call customer service.

    You are right. I do get it now, and I didn’t get it before, I was lazy and didn’t keep proper track of what I was spending. People ABSOLUTELY must keep track of the balances on their account and write down every purchase/debit/check in a check register. If you don’t, you more than likely will overdraw your account. It is as simple as that.

    I do think banks charge too much for these overdraft fees, but I can see now that it is certainly avoidable.

    Thanks, again, Kim, I hope I do get to speak you with you if I need help. :)

    Comment by Kasey — March 3, 2008 @ 10:37 am


  70. Kasey you are my new best friend! :-)

    Comment by Kim — March 4, 2008 @ 11:43 pm


  71. Yesterday (03/14/08) I stopped in Bank of America to open a new savings account. I live outside of the Citizens and Charter One Bank area. In an office the representative tried mulitiple times to sell me checking products. They have a new thing, if I use my debit/visa card they will round off my purchase to the next dollar, using the money from my checking account, then transfer that amount to my savings. If I have 5.50 in my checking account, use my card for 5.05, they’ll round that off to 6.00, putting 95cents in my savings, but charging my checking account an overdraft fee, but if I have savings overdraft, then they’ll pull the 95 cent neg balance from my savings to give to my savings and charge me the 10.00 fee for that savings overdraft plan. Who thinks this stuff up? BANKS DO!

    The rep was very nice, I asked questions, can using the debit card overdraft the checking account? YES
    Can using the ATM card overdraft my savings account? NO

    I’ll stay with my plan: I opened a savings account!

    At work, I read ALL the disclosures that came with my bank, it was 2 small books worth…highlighted the ones that could effect me. I am now ready to use my account. Be smart, educate yourself!

    Comment by Kim — March 15, 2008 @ 10:32 am


  72. Citizens Bank robbed me too! I had a check come through for today the 18th, along with 3 other transaction that totalled about 50.00. Tell me why the 150.00 check came through first, instead of the 3 seperate transactions that came below my available balance of 124.00. Citizens Bank smacked me with 222.00 in fees. I called them and they said they will remove 1 as a final courtesy. I’m closing my account and using my Federal Credit Union account. My Federal Credit Union account will decline me if I don’t have the funds to complete the transaction. Even if it was a credit or debit. Honestly, it’s my fault for not keeping track of my funds as the writer above stated but the point is some of these banks are just robbing us, while the owners sit back sippin and eating the finest foods while they take food from our mouths.

    PLEASE KEEP TRACK OF ALL OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    BLESS

    Comment by Andrew — March 19, 2008 @ 12:39 pm


  73. Andrew, I know, it is a hard lesson to learn. The banks typically will post high to low to maximize the amount of fees they can charge.

    Using your Credit Union seems like a wise idea, especially if they will decline a purchase if funds are not available. But regardless of where you bank, make sure you keep your own records of your account and each transaction, and don’t rely on the ATM or online balance.

    Good luck to you in the future.

    Comment by Kasey — March 19, 2008 @ 2:01 pm


  74. Kasey my friend!!! I love how you are helping folks here. Thank you so much.

    Banks post highest to lowest comes from back in the day of paper checks. Folks mostly wrote large checks for important purchases, and no bank back then covered an overdraft, they simply returned your checks if you had no money. Customers would get upset if you returned their bigger checks because these were mortgage or rent payments, down payments, etc. Now the posting order is still the same, it is in the bank disclosures, so read and learn EVERY policy that applies to you. Listen to Kasey, once you get it, you can bank anywhere you want.

    Today I had call after call, folks making multiple transaction before they had available funds. I have seen accounts this week that have had as much as $800 in NSF fees in this month. Of course it’s the banks fault that these customers can’t keep a written ledger! LOL Let me ask, do you really want us to decline your card at the resturant where you just got through eating a meal at? That won’t embarass you? Try this, skip eating out so much, make coffee and pack a sandwich for lunch. If you can’t balance your written ledger then don’t spend the money!

    I do feel for my customers, but most I cannot help, because they won’t take responsiblity for their own loss of self control. A mother crying to me today, claimed she was at a store and if I didn’t rebate her a fee, she wouldn’t be able to buy food for her baby. She did not qualify for any more help. What she didn’t know was I could see the transaction that she was trying to put through, do they sell baby food at the liquor store? A man called had hundreds of dollars in fees in the past few days, was uphappy that I couldn’t do as much as he wanted me too, sad there was more then 10 items pending and every one of them was either a resturant, fast food or doughnut shop, he was already negative, so a couple of days food, would cost him another 390.00 in fees. There are more stories then I can tell, but all show the wastefulness of our country. Live for the moment, either pay later or beg, why live like that? Thousands in tax rebates gone in a few days.

    Kasey now that you get it, do you have extra money? I am a single mother with no other support, so I never have much extra, and we might have to eat oatmeal and rice more then we want, but I am fee free!

    I wish we could change this blog to how to learn to keep your money.

    Kasey I hope someday we get to chat. :-)

    Comment by Kim — March 21, 2008 @ 12:59 am


  75. In 2007, I paid probably $3,600 - THAT’S $3,600 - in overdraft fees to Citizens Bank. Most of this is due to their creative money-raising practice of posting transactions is whatever way makes the bank the most money. For example, I have had them post one item for a large amount that was charged to my debit card AFTER bunches of small transactions that were charged to the card so that ALL of the small transactions would trigger overdraft fees. I recently discovered that they overdrew my account “early” this way by posting one charge so that the account was overdrawn faster, and then they took THAT charge and, after they charged me $176 in charges and the item actually was paid, they charged me another $39 for paying the item that they posted as soon as possible BEFORE the account was hit with all the fees. Does that make sense??? If you’re having a hard time following it, don’t be concerned. The bottom line is that Citizens Bank is out to SCREW as many of us hapless consumers as possible. Too many times have I gone $10 over and then been whacked with $218 in fees. Forget the mortgage crisis - THIS is where Ameica’s first money problem is. Who is going to do anything about this? Citizens thinks we’re all too ashamed - I’m to tired of getting screwed to be ashamed. WHAT CAN WE DO??? (kim if you tell me to just keep track I swear to god I’m going to send a nasty virus to your computer - you are just a big lackey.)

    Comment by The OTHER Kim — March 21, 2008 @ 10:47 pm


  76. Citizens Bank recently (in Nov 07) took OD Fees a step further, now charging them if your AVAILABLE balance goes negative (previously your LEDGER balance would have to go negative to trigger an OD Fee). How is this different? Let’s say that before this new method, you had $100 in your account, you made a $55 debit card purchase, then a $10 debit card purchase, then a $40 ATM withdrawal. The ATM withdrawal would post that day, bringing your balance to $60. A day or two later, the $55 transaction would post, bringing your balance to $5. Then the $10 transaction would post, causing a $5 overdraft and an overdraft fee (at Citizens that’s $39 if you have previous overdrafts). Let’s look at how this works with their new method (which by the way they say is done in the interest of the customers). You make the $55 purchase and your available balance is reduced to $45. You make the $10 transaction bringing your available balance to $35. You make the $40 ATM withdrawal which brings your available balance to -$5. A $39 overdraft fee is assessed. At the end of the day, your ledger balance is $21 (available balance is -$44). A day or two later, the $55 transaction posts (ledger balance is now -$34). The $10 transaction posts (ledger balance is now -$44). An overdraft fee is assessed for each of those transaction at $39 each. That’s one $39 fee the old way, and three with the new method. Think about that… you have $100 in your account (granted it’s dangerous to keep your balance so low, but some of us have no choice) and the bank didn’t allow you to make a one of those three transactions without assessing a fee. They’re are reserving money (with the authorization of debit transactions) yet now allowing that money to cover those very transactions. To me, that is unethical at best. It’s an unfair business practice and they’re playing around with the money of the customers that can afford it least. And they know that each fee they charge makes it that much more likely that customer will overdraft again, making them more money. It’s a snowball effect and they do it blatantly to rip their customers off.

    Comment by Mike — March 24, 2008 @ 11:47 pm


  77. To Kim: (kim if you tell me to just keep track I swear to god I’m going to send a nasty virus to your computer - you are just a big lackey.) I’ll not say a word! :-)

    Mike, it’s easy, here is how to manage that $100.
    $100
    - 55
    = 45.00 balance
    - 10.
    + 35.00 balance
    this is called a written ledger, in your real time written ledger you have 35.00 so if you take 40.00 out at an atm, you just over drew your account.

    ATM balances, online balances, the phone system balance ARE tools, you written ledger is you exact true balance so trust it!

    Comment by Kim — March 25, 2008 @ 11:10 am


  78. To the person posting as The Other Kim who posted 3/21/08: Overdrawn is overdrawn, whether by $10 or 100. If you refuse to keep track of each transactions, it is your fault when you overdraw your account. You can blame the bank all you want, but if there are not sufficient funds at the time items are presented for payment, you will be charged fees for overdrawing your account. Don’t pick on Kim, who is only trying to help people. She knows how banks operate and is trying to share information so people can avoid exactly the type of situation you are in. It just seems that most people refuse to listen and also refuse to realize they are at fault for their own financial irresponsibility.

    Obviously the banks are trying to make as much noney as they can. Be smart, record your tranasactions, don’t make purchases or payments based on funds that are not yet available. It can be done!

    Hi Kim. It has been almost a month now since I first wrote in to this blog about the changes I was going to make, and since then, NO overdraft fees! It is such a weight off my mind, knowing that I know exactly what my account balance is and when I go online to look at my account, I don’t have to dread seeing what the balance is, as I used to!

    Keep doing the wonderful, helpful work you do here and in your job, Kim. I also hope we can chat sometime.

    Comment by Kasey — March 25, 2008 @ 3:52 pm


  79. Kim, I too work for Citizen’s Bank/Charter One as a CSR. I totally agree with you. A lot of customers call in and try to place the blame on the bank for their simple errors. Or they intentionally overdraw their account and expect the bank to give them rebates. I think if all the customers kept accurate ledgers and wrote every single transaction down the moment they made it then there would be a lot less angry customers! I do understand that sometimes overdrawing an account is because of an emergency or on accident or an honest mistake but the majority can be prevented by keeping accurate ledgers. Kim keep up the good work! I think your amazing! There should definitely be more employees like you.

    Comment by Savannah — March 26, 2008 @ 5:53 am


  80. Hey Kasey, my favorite customer! :-) Since I joined this blog I have also been moving around and up at the bank, I am in a better place to help customers now, and just like in the beginning, I love to do just that.

    My happy customers will never read this blog, they won’t be looking for it. Banks are a business that people need. Some employers require a bank account for direct deposit, SS requires an account for benefit or assistant programs. If you need a place for your money to land, then consider a savings account and an atm card.

    It’s tax refund time! Customers get an email telling them they will have a direct deposit on a certain date, but the direct deposits are coming into the ACH department with a different “release” date on them. Before verifying their deposit customers are spending this money. Those calls are so hard, this is not a banking error, I cannot just give you back all the fees. And I mean fees! Piling up, eating away at your hard earned money. Verify that deposit at you bank FIRST!

    Transactions If in dire straights I would risk over drafting my account for: Mortgage or rent, electric or heat, medicine or medical, groceries or gas, car payment and only then if it was a final notice that I already tried to work out first. IF you choose to overdraft yourself for a transaction such as this, make sure you don’t have any other transactions still out there that haven’t posted!

    I hear alot that our customer service is as helpful as you want us to be. Anytime you feel like the agent on the phone isn’t trying to assist you, calmly ask for their name, note the date and time, and ask for their supervisor. It might be a 20 minute wait, but it can help us better serve you. This information we keep track of. Things we need from our customers when they call, we need your patience, we need to understand you, once we get to this point, we need you to listen. If we can help you avoid this in the future, then we are ready to help you. I am going to try to help you no matter what, but if you are calling me names, screaming at me, verbaly attacking me, it’s going to take longer, and if you hang up, all working the situation out stops!

    Kasey, I will figure out how we can keep in touch. :-)

    website that helps me and my son stay on budget www.hillbillyhousewife.com

    Comment by Kim — March 26, 2008 @ 10:41 am


  81. Savannah, thanks for stopping in. Kasey is a happy customer, and now we have a happy Customer Service, you. Please join us is sharing what could be the most important message for others during such a financial trying time.

    Comment by Kim — March 29, 2008 @ 6:26 pm


  82. By the way, last week I had a message to call back a customer. “Andrew” asked me if I could remember him, I hated that his voice and account felt familar, but no I couldn’t remember him. He said he was rude to me and not very excepting of my advice. I admit if I am really trying to help you, I can be very firm in my position. He called backing hoping to talk to me, first he apologized for how he spoke to me, but most important, he thanked me. Like Kasey, he gets it now. I hope to hear from him again, now I know I won’t forget him, because he made my day!

    Did the other Kim call me a big lackey? What is a lackey? Is that someone who is NOT overdrawn? :-)

    Comment by Kim — March 29, 2008 @ 6:54 pm


  83. I think it’s disgusting that because you people work for Citizens Bank, you think that makes their actions justifiable. Everybody wants to make an “honest” living, but by supporting these ridiculous banks, you certainly are not. You should be ashamed of yourselves! How on earth can you justify charging someone $40 for spending $2????? It makes me sick to my stomach how these banks take advantage of the hard-working citizens. If they don’t want you to overdraft then they should cut you off. Simple as that. This whole “lag” time is bull. They purposely tie up your money and hold your transactions until you reach a minimal amount and then hit every charge starting with the large ones first. I work in the car business and everyone thinks that salespeople are scammers…well you know what, the banks are making a hell of alot more money off of you and with minimal effort. I think everyone should take their money out of banks if you really want to see politicians like Bush go down. Someone’s getting all this money and is certainly isn’t us. The most humiliating part of this whole discussion is the fact that you Citizens personnel think that all of this is ok. I feel very sorry for you because you are some very pathetic souls and you’ll never achieve anything in life being a follower, especially a follower of the beliefs of Citizens Bank.

    Comment by Amanda — March 29, 2008 @ 7:39 pm


  84. So Amanda are you overdrawn?

    Knowing all about your bank and bank policies, and never spending money you don’t have available on your written ledger. Don’t kite a purchase unless you are ready to pay an overdraft fee if it posts before your deposit. It’s not a scam, unless you’re a scammer.

    Don’t blame the bank or their employees because you can’t stay in the possitive.

    Comment by Kim — March 31, 2008 @ 11:11 am


  85. Today-Monday, I wish all the customers that I helped would comment on this blog. The Mom who had fraud on her account, leaving her waiting on the investigation to be complete, and needing gas to get to work tomorrow. Just like any of us in her shoes, she was demanding, some might say she was rude, but honestly she was desperate. I couldn’t bring the fraud money back instantly, but I did rebate enough fees to replace what she lost. The relief in her voice was priceless.

    Another customer had deposited a check Saturday that wouldn’t be available until Tuesday, she had no clue until she went online to transfer that deposit into her checking account. She had a check coming in that would overdraft her account. Months ago her husband’s direct deposit was delayed causing her 3 fees, I could instantly rebate most of that amount, giving her enough balance to cover her charges on hold and the check. She was very nice to do business with.

    These are the 2 I liked helping the most, but all my customers today were great. I like my job!

    :-)

    Comment by Kim — April 1, 2008 @ 12:04 am


  86. I had banks in lots of banks, and I didn`t find yet a bank worst than CITIZENS BANK, its unbeliveable how there is a customer service of this bank trying to clean up its mess!!! Please friend, this bank is good for who has plenty of money. This is a very good money for rich people. Now if you consider middle or low class don`t open an account in this BANK!!!

    Comment by Rodrigo Pinto — April 1, 2008 @ 4:57 pm


  87. EVEN BANK OF AMERICA IS BETTER THAN CITIZENS BANK,, OPS EVEN SOVEREIGN BANK!!!!

    Comment by Rodrigo Pinto — April 1, 2008 @ 4:59 pm


  88. I am yet another Citizen’s Bank failure. I overdrafted my account by 1.28 on March 17 then went out of state for Break. About halfway through it I got a call saying that I was in the hole 40 dollars. By the time I returned and got to the bank I was in the hole 108 dollars. I tried speaking to a manager, who told me that my circumstances didn’t matter, I had to pay in the next four days. My friend told me to call customer service, they rebated one fee, and generously allowed me to only owe 73 dollars. As an unemployed college student, I don’t have 73 dollars, I didn’t even have 1.28. I can not pay. But in a few days I’ll owe 108 again, and it will just keep snowballing. So I’m wondering, if all these people are upset, why doesn’t anyone do anything about it? FILE A COMPLAINT. I’m taking it up with the Federal Reserve, everyone else should too. Maybe they won’t be able to help me, but don’t just let this bank push you around, do something about it.

    Also, when I opened my account the vice president harrassed me about smoking cigarettes, talk about poor customer service. I should have walked away then.

    Comment by Michelle — April 1, 2008 @ 10:32 pm


  89. I’m not hear to clean up Citizen’s mess, in fact about 1% of the customers I assist are bank errors.

    As I have stated, over and over again, IF YOU SPEND MORE THEN YOU HAVE IN YOUR ACCOUNT, no matter who you are, you will overdraw your account. It’s a computer program, all it knows is positive or negative! The program doesn’t know your income, it doesn’t know if you are a student, a senior citizen, mentally impaired, unemployed and it can’t see race. If you don’t keep track of your own account then why do you call this Citizen’s fault?

    Sometimes after a long day at work, and I check in here, I wonder if any of you guys will ever be like Kasey. Sha was angry with the bank, and yet she realized that unless she took control of her own expenses, the bank would have the advantage, and her money.

    The bank advances you money though your own transaction, at a cost per transaction, period. Banks are a business.

    Interesting question. You don’t have much balance in your account with a few pending transaction. You use your Debit card as credit, to “kite” a charge that you know won’t be completed before your direct deposit. The credit purchase imediately places the spent amount on “hold”. Where does the amount on “hold” come from?

    Answer: Your account’s available balance. So now any or all of the few pending transactions will not have any available balance to pay these with. Who took the balance? You did! This is not a bank error, this is you spending more then you had in your account before your deposit.

    “kite”= writting a check or making a transaction before the funds are in the bank: illegal in ALL states.

    Tonight I am in the mood to tell you, if you can’t balance your account, then close it!

    Comment by Kim — April 2, 2008 @ 1:35 am


  90. What Kim says is true, you must be responsible for knowing what is in your own account AT ALL TIMES. It does not matter if you are $1.28 overdrawn of $128 overdrawn, you will be charged fees for spending more than what is in your account.

    It is now almost six weeks since I started from square one, as I described in my previous posts. I nailed down the exact amount that is available in my checking account, and from there I made sure I started to record each and every transaction (debits, checks, deposits, preauthorized payments). I have not overdrawn my account since I started doing this. Before this, I would overdraw my account on a regular basis, not really being sure of what charges were coming in and what checks I had written that had not yet cleared.

    If you refuse to be responsible for your account by keeping your own records and not spending more than what is in your account, you have no one but yourself to blame. As Kim says in her post above, you probably should not have a checking account at all!

    Comment by Kasey — April 2, 2008 @ 10:52 am


  91. are you getting GOOD MONEY to defend them??
    if not go take care of your own life
    Because if you don`t know there are lots of people that are paying $200`s and $300`s a day only because of small purchases they made of $1 or $2,
    If they don`t have the money to pay it, so why the bank pay it???? only to charge them stupid overdraft fees. More human from the bank should do not pay so these charges wouldn`t be charged, now don`t tell me these people are doing crime, the citizens bank is the BIGGEST LEGAL KILLER that I ever saw!!!
    I can list lots of people that are suffering from that
    write down their losses and lets see in court who is the biggest criminal!!!

    Comment by Rodrigo Pinto — April 3, 2008 @ 10:13 am


  92. Sorry, Rodrigo, you are incorrect. The bank’s policies are stated in the disclosure booklet you are given when you open your account. There is nothing that you can take them to court over. If you choose to ignore their policies, that is your problem. I certainly think the banks charge too much for overdraft fees and they are greedy. But fees can be avoided by simply keeping track of your transactions by writing them down and keeping track of your available balance on a daily basis.

    If anyone is paying $200 to $300 a day in overdraft fees, they have serious money management problems and should not have a checking account at all.

    I learned the hard way and after hundreds of dollars in overdraft fees myself over the last few years. I finally learned my lesson and I now take responsibility for may own money and keeping track of it. Since I have done this (read my previous posts) I have not overdrafted once in the six weeks I changed my ways.

    I am not sure why you think that your refusal to keep track of your own money is somehow the bank’s fault. Banks are in business to make money. Don’t hand your hard-earned money over to them. Keep your own records, write down every transaction and know what your available balance at all times!

    I don’t work for the bank and I am in no way defending the outrageous amounts banks charge for overdraft fees. But you can avoid fees by using simple money management skills and not spending more than you have in your account!

    Comment by Kasey — April 3, 2008 @ 11:46 am


  93. Hi dear friend, but it is in the agreement, it means it is legal,
    I`m not wast my precious time with a person who has nothing to do and keeps defending a bank.

    Comment by Rodrigo Pinto — April 3, 2008 @ 7:14 pm


  94. Ok, whatever, Rodrigo, you can think what you like, but I clearly stated in my previous post that I do not work for a bank and am in no way defending how banks operate. I am simply stating that if you learn how banks operate, you can take control of your financial situation and avoid overdraft fees.

    But I guess it’s easier for you to keep on blaming the bank for your own financial irresponsbility. Good luck with that!

    Comment by Kasey — April 4, 2008 @ 11:41 am


  95. Kasey, your post(s) was well said. Rodrigo is the perfect example of an unhappy customer. Still not the bank’s error.

    Comment by Kim — April 4, 2008 @ 3:46 pm


  96. Rodrigo any checking account requires the customer to keep track of their TRANSACTION. Blaiming the bank, or the customers who get that, isn’t cool.

    Try giving up the checking account, opening a savings account and having an ATM card.

    It’s been a hard week, more and more customers are not keeping a written ledger. Some are over drafting their accounts on purpose. They claim it’s due to the economy. But the truth is, because of the economy, you need to stick to your budget, this means giving up some things. Customers are risking overdraftS for a cup of coffee, a burger, etc. Pack a sandwich and make coffee at home.

    Have a good weekend, and don’t spend more money then you have available in YOUR WRITTEN LEDGER!

    Comment by Kim — April 4, 2008 @ 10:21 pm


  97. I’m not sticking up for Kim or Kasey or any bank…. but I have to agree with them….. KEEP TRACK OF YOUR TRANSACTIONS. A written Ledger is the best way to keep track of your money…. BUT on the other hand…. you also need to watch your account from the bank as well. If you have a check going in and you are unaware of a holding then what you have in your ledger is wrong… because those funds are not available and you will overdraft and get fees even if the money is there but held. I bank with Bank Of America and believe me when I make a deposit that transaction goes to the front any holds already there(whether it is from a debit or check) will then follow after it. I never spend more then I have in my ledger… I don’t overdraft on my account because I keep a good written ledger.
    While keeping a good ledger is a good habit, knowing your available balance is also neccessary. So for anyone out there who spends more than they have in there account SHAME ON YOU… don’t blame the bank for YOUR MISTAKE. I know the bank is charging outragous charges, and there is something we all can do…. STOP SPENDING MORE THAN YOU HAVE IN THE ACCOUNT. If you know you don’t have enough for that cup of coffee then don’t get it.
    Is anyone here listning to themselves…. You have $100 in your account, you spend $50 for a bill then you go to the store and spend $40 for whatever, then another $10 for lunch, then $2.00 for the cup of cofee…. well duh y